Mitchell report…

    I know this report is coming out at 2pm on Thursday, but I want to know what you think about the past decade of baseball. Do you view this as the ‘steroid era’ or do you think there were smaller percentage of players using illegal performance enhancers. I don’t want to put words in your mouth. If you could summarize the past decade…what would you say? I ask this because, no matter what the report says….I’m pretty sure the public opinion is pretty well set.

Dan

50 Responses

  1. Let’s see…

    Spoiled players demanding ridiculous contracts.

    Foolish owners willing to pay spoiled players ridiculous contract money.

    Teams purchased to win a championship and then disbanded in fire sales at the end of the year (Florida et al.).

    Zero team loyalty by the players.

    Lip service fan appreciation by the players.

    Average ticket prices equal to a mortgage payment (or two).

    8 dollar beers.

    Tainted records.

    No heroes to cheer for.

    What’s not to love?

  2. Dan: I don’t know how the past decade in baseball can be labeled as anything but The Juiced Era. I remember all the talk during the 1998 season about the baseballs themselves. Were they juiced? Nope. It was the players.

    How does one explain players’ increasing hat sizes and shoe sizes and players defying the effect of aging? OK, HGH is technically not a steriod, but it is juice. OK, juice doesn’t put the bat on the ball, but it does help you maintain your fitness level over a grueling season. That goes for all positions, includuing pitchers.

    As a baseball fan, I’m less interested in the exercise of looking back unless we’re really going to get serious about cleaning up the game going forward. Let’s talk about the next steps. No more bulljive: mandatory blood tests, just like the Olympics. No more union/owner finessing of the issue. Otherwise, the Michell Report isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

    Sure, there will be cheaters looking for angles, but let’s spend more time ensuring the next decade in baseball is The Clean Era than documenting what the last era was all about. The statistics and anecdotal evidence already label the last decade as The Juiced Era. Senator Mitchell’s report simply supports what we really already know.

  3. Led Zeppelin, now there is a era.

  4. There was the dead ball era and now the steroids era. I first thought steroids were in baseball around 1988. Yes, Canseco was an obvious user. But around that same time, Lenny Dykstra came to spring training for the Mets and he looked like he gained about 30 pounds of muscle in the off season. I wish someone would ask Dykstra about that spring training. Would he admit he loaded up on roids in the off season that year? I remember thinking nobody in the media is saying anything about it. Or they are too stupid to know that you can’t gain that much muscle mass in such a short time frame without taking drugs.

  5. The last decade in baseball is a mess. What I love about sports doesn’t flow through a needle. It’s intangilbe. I saw something in Michael Jordan, Robin Yount, Joe Montana and Wayne Gretzky. I still see it in Brett Favre, Koby Bryant and Tiger Woods. I saw a competitive spirit that time and time again lifted them above their opponents. Steroids are the equivelent of copying the test answers of the smart kid in the next chair at school. It just feels dirty. If the cheating kid was as smart as Barry was talented – does that make it ok and he should get in the HOF anyway? I don’t know what should happen with the records. I want to say they should be stricken. But what do we strike from the books since we don’t know who did and who didn’t. I miss knowing that Roger Maris and Hank Aaron are the benchmarks. Bonds numbers mean no more to me than the results of a WWF match. What a mess.

  6. The Mitchell Report is a $60M attempt to blow smoke up the rear ends of the American Public. Bud Selig is nothing more than a pawn; George Mitchell is nothing more than the bishop behind the pawn. This report has no teeth, no veritable enforcement, no consequences, and absolutely no credibility. So what if we learn Roger Clemens used PE’s. He’s done. Put the jackass in the HOF with the rest of the cheaters that put up numbers in the last 125 years. There’s just as much “Fame” in the Hall as there is “Shame”: a collection of cheaters, wife beaters, tax evaders, drug abusers, and gamblers. Put ’em all in the HOF where they belong.

    Isn’t that what we want anyway? Dan, it doesn’t matter anymore does it? Sport in this society isn’t legitimate if you aren’t cheating. All of these bums will be dead by the time they are 50 anyway. Then I ask, “Was it worth it?”

    This report will desensitize the public more than it already is. Nobody gives a flip at this point anyway because there will be no consequences. PE’s are a part of the culture of Sport in as much as pot smoking and LSD were a part of the Woodstock era. It’s a defining barometer of where this culture of Sport is in the last 10-15 years. It is simply too far gone to police, and even further gone to make anyone care.

    Ken Burns has a new project I’m commissioning him to embark on:
    “Sport in America – The Proliferation of Cheating to Win”

    Memo to George Mitchell & Bud Selig: You can go home now. You have outlived your usefulness to the American public who can see through your sorry, phony, and lying attempts to con us. Thanks for robbing me of $60 mil.

  7. To me, a former diehard Reds fan, the last 10 years of baseball has been the era where the small market team has become irrelevant. The disparity between the Yankees, Red Sox and the like compared to likes of the Pirates, Reds, and Kansas City has absolutely ruined baseball. The small market teams are nothing more than triple A affiliates for the larger markets. It’s gotten to the point that I seriously doubt we’ll ever see a hall of fame player being inducted into the hall wearing any small market team’s uniform.

    I used to follow the Reds passionately, but after seeing player after player that’s worth a damn swallowed up by the larger markets, what’s the fun of pulling for them? Who gives a damn about finishing over 500? Nowadays, I just hope the Reds make it interesting enough to keep my attention until the all star break. Then I can begin getting ready for football.

    In regards to Steroids, major league baseball has to take a huge part of the blame. When the strike occurred, they didn’t even address this issue because they wanted the players to get back on the field as soon as possible. Are the players wrong for taking something that improves their performance, thus leading to bigger contracts, especially if it is something the league doesn’t test for?? How many of us would be thinking about doing that same thing? Before steroids came along, Greenies were used by players to enhance their performance. That was ignored for decades. The only reason MLB cares now is due to the huge media presence on the issue.

  8. It’s kinda like when you found out Santa wasn’t “real”.
    Before, it all excitement and jubliation. After it becomes ho hum. Finding it out sort of tainted past memories, but it didn’t effect your life really at all because you still got the presents that you would have gotten had you not realized that it was a lie.

    That’s just like the “steroid era”. (I use the term losely because I’m sure this isn’t “new” to the past two decades) Fans go to the games and cheer for their players. Then afterwords, find out that their players cheated. It taints the memories of those past experiences but the fans still go to the games the same amount of time as before, therefore doesn’t effect anything in the fans life other than past memories.

  9. Eras…

    Dead Ball

    Juiced Ball

    Juiced Player

  10. I love baseball…..have ever since I can remember. But sadly, this report is just another case of baseball pretending to care about an issue. They expect to sell this report in which the guy asking the question is a glorified security guard. Stop…..or I’ll ask you to stop again!!!!! No subpeona power, no players cooperation unless the commish’s office had some leverage on them. No wonder this has no effect on public opinion.

    This issue, combined with the lack of any whiff of parity just works to push fans away. Yet MLB brings in record dollars. Maybe no one else cares that NY and Boston are able to spend more in their outfield than some team’s entire roster. And even worse, that some owners won’t spend anything. The spending balance and lack of any kind of cap (spare me the luxury tax BS) is the issue that really is pushing me away as much or more than the steroid issues.

  11. To quote James Earl Jones in field of dreams, “baseball is a constant.”

    Every year, no matter the talk of big salaries and drug use, spring training comes and people flock to the begining of this countries oldest sports tradition. We’ve been through everything from players throwing games to players being drafted and through strikes.

    Like someone said in an earlier post, we know that there isnt going to be much accountability. No one is probably going to get in trouble. So we move past it. It was a tough era, but we move on.

    I think even though most of us will think back to this as a steroid era, we remember the things that make baseball what it is.

    The subway series in 2000. The world series being pushed back after 9/11 and watching them play that game in NY.
    The Marlins coming from no where to beat the evil empire of NY. And my favorite, the Red Sox winning after 86 years.

    Baseball will bounce back. The quicker this stuff comes out, the quicker we can move on.

  12. Steroids allowed these ballplayers to make fast strength gains. I have lifted weights consistently for 25 years. I was 6-foot, 165 pounds when I started. I never used drugs. I only ate a normal diet nothing unusual. It took me 15 years to reach 200 pounds. I have maintained that weight ever since.

  13. Money + performance = media coverage + money = scandal. That’s the equation and always will be.

    In the days where a natural man can make 1/3 of a billion dollars to hit a ball, and to pay him, the ticket is too expensive to watch him do it….what would you expect?

    Nonetheless, sports has a way of being resilient no matter what happens because it’s still the best unscripted drama in the world, and people WANT to believe.

  14. It is the Era of Speculation

    The Mitchell Report isn’t really that acurate and really won’t provide us with anything but speculation.

  15. Major League Baseball is like crabgrass in a lawn. Just when you think you have killed the plant in the lawn the crabgrass plants come back growing in your lawn.

    Baseball will survive and remain part of our American fabric even this report and the uiproar this report will generate.

  16. My pre-opinion. We live in the steroids era. Or the asterisk era, take your pick.

    Ken Caminiti sealed the deal for me. Ken Caminiti? He wasn’t as obvious a candidate as Jose Canseco or Mark McGwire.

    Then there’s Rafael Palmeiro. What kind of career would he have had? There’s no way to know.

    Even through the haze, Bonds was the top talent. But I think he got caught up in it, too. I don’t feel sorry for him.

    To me, it’s the asterisk era.

    Erik

  17. 1. Sorry, but hey Reds fan… 1990 was not THAT long ago.. and just about anyone can win in the NL Central. Not to mention most every team is receiving some money from the cap deal. Question is are they spending it wisely…and on players.

    2. I view this as a Steroid Era in Sports..not just baseball. But as far as baseball goes it was everyone’s fault. Without a true commisioner… one not attached or in bed with the teams and MLB brass…and one looking out for the best interest of baseball (yeah…what happened to that…must be the words on their office doormat).

    Many players and Union saw nothing was being done and the band played on.

  18. […] It will be interesting to hear Dan Patrick’s take on the report on tomorrow’s show. For now Dan has a post up about the then impending report on his official site. […]

  19. Dan, I just hope now that you provide equal scrutiny to all those players listed as you did with Bonds. To quote Michael Irvin in his infamous locker room rage: SAME INTENSITY, SAME INTENSITY.

    The mitchel report has more evidence, an actual witness, than the evidence that we have on Bonds. So I expect you to lead the way in the media to scrutinize on daily basis all those players listed. If you don’t one would have to question your motives behind your constant quest against Bonds.

    So your integrity is also at stake in how you handle this report and how you cover it on your show. You can no longer single out Bonds (even though he is a jerk).

    This is as much about baseball as it is about the integrity of the media the purposely looked the other way and then only when after minority ball players with verve. Don’t give me that Giambi crap either. You attacked Bonds and Conseco way more than Giambi.

    Let’s see how you handle this. Were listening Dan.

  20. Sorry for the typos in my previous post.

  21. We all assumed for a long time but we still kept paying for the seat and the beer and the jersey’s… We didn’t stand up and protest because it was fun and is fun to watch. The players are not the only ones to blame, as well as the owners and the unions. We still supported it and never demanded change until now. In any case what is past is past, how do we move forward and what does the face of baseball and sports in general, because this will no doubt have an effect on others, look like. If we clean it up will it still be exciting? God I hope so…

  22. Since the beginning, men who seek power, fortune and fame have sold their souls to reach their goals. Baseball, apart of the American dream for over 100 years, where the average player is treated to Superhuman status, provides the stage for those super egos to grow. Whether its corked bats, spit balls, fixing games for profit, or the new chemicals that improve performance; the ego that has to have it all at any cost has always been there.

    Are you really surprised by the names, especially Clements? Has there been a bigger ego in the last 5 years? Bonds maybe, but they all feed off the power they feel being titled ‘the best’. Cheating is something they rationalize and some even challenge the establishment to catch them. Look in the paper, any given day, they are on the front page, the financial pages and on the sports page. CEO’s, bankers, NBA owners, your cousin Vinny, we all know them.

    Shame on us, the fan, for expecting more than a game to entertain us for awhile. To take our kids, eat a hot dog, and have fun. Many of us can appreciate the players talent, because we played organized sport somewhere along the way to real jobs. Let’s remember its only a game, and hope the players give there best on the field, with hard work and the bodies God gave them.

    The best predictor of future behavior is the past, with 130 years of cheating in baseball’s history, do you really think todays report will stop them?

  23. On a brighter note, how bout that William’s kid for Houston? You think Kubiak regrets not taking Bush? He had some game tonight and what 10 sacks in 6 games.

  24. I remember when my mother brought baseball to me, listening on the radio to the Dodgers games in the early 50s.
    How great was it when Jackie Robinson overcame the race barrier. When Roger Maris in such work like fashion overcame his team-mate Mickey Mantle and even the “Babe”. When Hank fought off the hatred and performed past the 714 mark. Even as recently as Cal Ripken Jr. and his streak, I was swept up by the tributes in Baltimore. Today I admire Ichiro Suzuki and his work ethic. His recent accomplishment of hits per season mark was much more of a feat to me than recent home run records. But then that was the way I was brought up to play. Today, the big arms, the big heads, the remarkable feats have been something to be gasped at, but always with a question mark. Our culture has changed and perhaps that question mark will not linger as it is now so obviously such a “business”. I’m sure it always was a business, just less obvious to those of us mesmerized by the past’s achievements that made us proud and brought us feelings of human attachment, something lacking most often now.
    I have never attended a major league game in person, and may never do so. The main call to do so now is just the park in Seattle, just up I-5, which looks so wonderful in the evening light. – Portland, OR

  25. Aaron,
    You can’t disagree that Major league teams are playing by two different set of rules. Johan Santana, Tori Hunter, and ARod are three perfect examples. How many teams have a realistic shot at these guys? 8 teams maybe? Arod, even fewer. Teams like the Reds, A’s, Pirates and the like have to rely on their farm system and some halfway decent veterans to compete. The Twins are a perfect example of the problem. They competed a couple years, now they’re losing their stars to the larger market teams because they can’t afford them. Inevitably, the MVP on these small market teams are the general managers, which seems asinine to me.

    One thing I would like to see is a salary cap on both ends as well. KC has one of the richest owners in the league, and yet every year he pays next to nothing in regards to player’s salaries.

  26. Baseball is largely lost to me. I’m tired of the temper tantrums, tired of the steroids, tired of the Yankees.

    And it’s a shame, because I’m a complete homer and my Rockies performed little miracles this year. That’s the only thing that’s keeping me the least bit interested.

  27. BUD Get your Checkbook ready!

    Wait for the players union to have their say!

    When the law suits are filed they will look like this.

    “Rocket did you take steroids?” “No, I took HGH before I was aware the league had a policy on it.” ” So Rocket, I mean Roger you took hgh?” ” Yes!”

    “Rocket how much lost revenue and endorsement money have you lost since the Mitchell report?

    CHA CHING

  28. I think the sports media utterly failed, and continues to fail the fan on the issue of steroids.
    I think that many media members are extremely hypocritical in that they continually condemn MLB by pointing out that MBL turned a blined eye to steroids because MLB was making money hand over fist, but the companies for which those media members work were partners with MLB, and those companies were making the same money. For instance, ESPN spent billions of dollars during the steroid era to broadcast baseball games, the All-Star game, and the home run contest year after year. Is it any wonder that investigative reporters for ESPN did not delve into steroid use in baseball? When Baseball Tonight used to show the home runs for the night, the show would have cartoon characters with giant bulging muscles hitting home runs out of the park. You think these guys didn’t know what was going on?
    Now the common reporter will say something to the effect of “well, we had no proof, so we couldn’t say anything.” That is simply garbage. Did ESPN have any proof that Les Miles was definately going to Michigan? Obviously not because it didn’t happen, but they reported it. Plus there is a way in which you can report that there is wide spread steroid use without naming names.
    I think ESPN had a huge conflict of interest on this story and that it failed its views.
    Now I hear all the time from the media that we don’t know everyone who cheated so we shouldn’t punish the ones we know cheated. This is such a stupid statement. I don’t know everyone that dog fights, but I know Michael Vick belongs in jail because I know he dog fights. Should we say Michael Vick does not belong in jail because we can’t put everyone who dog fights in jail?
    Media members also act like it must be all or nothing when it comes to the record book. “Well, what do we do about the guys who scored runs on a Bonds home run if we take away the home runs.” Don’t worry about it. There should be a simple rule that a player is not allowed to hold an individual record if it is determined by MLB, not a court of law, that such player used steroids. You don’t have to fix everything in the record book, but simply take away the individual records.
    The media needs to get a brain on this issue.

  29. Nothing mentioned about the Rangers’ Steroid problems (Gonzalez, Pudge, Sierra, etc.). The politically polished Mitchell was smart enough not to implicate th White House.

  30. How dumb are the steroid-using baseball players? They write personal checks to buy roids and HGH? Hey, fools, pay cash only. Canceled checks can be used against you. Talk about leaving a paper trail. Eric Gagne has drugs delivered via Federal Express to Dodger Stadium? Some guys were buying the stuff online? I realize many athletes are not too smart. But, jeez, these ballplayers are too much. What a bunch of dopes (pun intended)!!!!

  31. Dan,

    How’s this for corroboration:

    “Yes on Roger Clemens. God forbid we mix the guys rubbing cream on their body with the racists, wife beaters, bat-corkers, adulterers and murder suspects that currently reside in a collection of dust and baseballs that is the Baseball Hall of Fame. It’s a freakin’ museum, and the last 20 years is a part of that history that was allowed to happen, no matter how badly people want to deny it.”
    — Joe Cowley, Chicago Sun-Times

    Cowley is dead wrong on Clemens though. I thought Costas had it right however, when he said today that as long as the steroid heads had their own wing in the HOF, and not be included with the others, that the rest of us could judge for ourselves where in history these players stood. Costas is so right. I hope all of the Roid Heads have it inscribed on their tin-type plaques that were named on the report. Smear ’em good and let them die hard. They chose not to compete fairly, honorably, and within the rules of respect for the game. At least David Justice was flying off his toilet seat today with his reaction. Good for him. Oh, Roger? It’s OK to come outside now and speak now. Clemens doesn’t have a chance – – he’s toast.

    I guess there are more than a few beat writers taking their ques from some of us on this site who have got it right. Check my post on this topic sixth from the top of this list.

  32. Dan, let the stupidity begin. So Mr. Pettitte says he took HGH because it was not against baseball rules. Uh, I didn’t know that baseball needed a rule for things that are illegal. I guess MLB should add rules for that it’s not okay to murder people.

    Now Andy want’s some sympathy. Dan, your caution for judgement in waiting to hear from Clemens and all these cheats continues to ruin your credibility especially with the way you have been after Bonds.

    I doubt you even read this Blog. It would be nice to see you respond to any of these comments. Isn’t that the purpose of a Blog?

    The Media needs a rule like covering politics were both sides get equal coverage. The next 2-3 years should be devoted to skewering all these cheats to balance out the coverage that has been exclusively given to Bonds.

  33. first, to answer your question, was it the era of the juiced player, obviously it was. But the real question is will we ever know all of the players that were using ‘roids or supplements. I mean all of the players who use supplements are looking to gain an advantage. And what about the players who used to take “greenies” like they were vitamins? Jim Bouton revealed in “Ball Four” in 1969 about the heavy use of those, but how long did it baseball to act on that one? Baseball did this to itself, and has no one else to blame. Bud Selig is now trying to clear his legacy with this Mitchell report, after having not only his head buried in the sand like an ostrich for so many years.. but all the rest of him so all you could see was the bottoms of his shoes!!

  34. Sorry Dan, but now I’m on a roll. Bud wants to punish the players for their use of steroids, HGH etc. Baseball didn’t have a policy on this until what…. 2004? 2005? and he wants to punish people for using them prior to that?.. Thats like the police giving me a ticket now for driving without a seatbelt during the years before the laws were passed that made that illegal… again to answer your question, it will be known as the era of the juiced player, but it will also be known as a black era for baseball, and it should really be known as the Selig era… and I think that says it all.

  35. I avoid calling it the Steroid Era, if only so I don’t sound like another Sportcenter “Budweiser Hot Seat” blowhard. Perhaps it should be called, “We break the rules we can get away with breaking” Era. Of course, this era stretches back to the beginning of any form of interaction in the history of mankind. Denial of civil rights? Our society did that until they couldnt get away with it anymore. Vigilante justice? Hello Wild Wild West when it was legal, good-bye WWW when it wasnt. Steroids, anyone? Hello body acne, until someone actually enforced the policy against it. Its a waste of time, energy, and Skip Bayless hair gel to get over excited about the Mitchell report. In the end, no one is suprised, no one is really upset about this, and no one gave a crap when it was happening.

  36. For those of you who think HGH was illegal you need to get your facts straight. HGH is legal with a proper prescription. Now, I’m not saying these players had the prescription, but just because they were taking HGH didn’t make it illegal. IF they had a prescription for it and it wasn’t a banned substance at the time then the player did nothing wrong. PERIOD.

    I think some of the big failures of the Mitchell report are:
    1. It’s pretty much based on the testimony of one person
    2. It goes too far back in time (what’s in the past is past)
    3. It fails to investigate whether the players who were receiving HGH or other substances actually had a prescription. Why no investigation into medical records and the such?

    Also, why was a player like Derick Turnbow included in this report? Just to add substance?

    The following is an excerpt from
    http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=696812

    Basically, it was a regurgitation of a thoroughly reported failed test for androstenedione when Turnbow was trying out for the U.S. Olympic qualifying team in 2003.

    “Andro” was not banned by MLB at the time and Turnbow didn’t know it was a banned substance in the Olympics. He tested positive, admitted exactly what he had done, apologized and said he stopped taking “andro.”

    One of the reasons the Mitchell Report ran 409 pages was that it brought up a lot of old news on the drug front, including articles written in many newspapers over the years. Apparently, Mitchell thought it relevant to put that information in his report.

  37. Ironically, the best way to describe the Mitchell report is as a 300 level college paper on steroids. He injected his report with the substance of other peoples works, displaying the power of 400+ pages that made people say, “Wow!”, only to find out that there was only about 70 pages of production from his own investigation, and they were weak statistics at that. At least he didnt plagarize. that would have been the equivalent of Barry Bonds swearing he did not know he was receiving the clear/cream.

  38. Here come the lies. “I never took steroids or HGH”. Sure. That’s why your body blew up in a short period of time. That’s why you pitched better after you appeared washed up 10 years ago (Roger Clemens). That’s why you went from 15 home runs per year to 40 (Brett Boone). That’s why your fastball went from 92 MPH to 98 MPH (Eric Gagne). As of this moment, Clemens has made no statement. Why? Because if you deny it, you risk being a liar and a cheat. I bet a vast majority of these players only have remorse because they have been caught.

  39. Do you mean they are still playing baseball?

  40. I heard that Clemens just said he did not do steroids or HGH. I don’t believe him.

  41. clemens’ head ballooned in size…and I don’t think it because of saturated fat

  42. Be careful Clemens. Be very careful. If you get in front of congress, point your finger and say you have never done roids or HGH, you too could end up at the perjury trial like Barry. The Feds don’t like perjury. If I was congress I would ask Pettite if Clemens ever did roids or HGH. It would be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone. … I have heard those Texas prisons are rough.

  43. Still love following baseball. Still a great game. Individual achievements of the last 20 years very tainted unless your Greg Maddux, Ken Griffey Jr., Tom Glavine, Mariano Rivera, John Smoltz, Tony Gwynn and a few others.

  44. No Clemens to the Hill? You are kidding me? This is what my boss would call a “goat rodeo.”

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